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The Outlaw Sea, https://us.macmillan.com/books/9780865477223/theoutlawsea/ , is a book about all of the ways international water is essentially lawless.

I think it's more that the analogy is broken.

If I have a sheet of paper and I color a section black. That's it. It's black. No going back.

So I can see people thinking the same for PDFs. I drew the black box. It's black. Done. They don't realize they aren't dealing with a 2D sheet of paper, but with effectively a 3D stack of papers. That they didn't draw a black box on the page, they drew a black box above the page over the area they wanted to obscure.

The fact that this happens a lot is an indication that the software is wrong in this case. It doesn't conform to user expectations.


I think it's part laziness here.

Placing a black rectangle on a PDF is easier than modifying an image or removing text from that same PDF.


The tool in Acrobat is exactly placing black rectangles on stuff. There's a second step you are supposed to do when you are finishing marking the redactions that edits out the content underneath them, and offers to sanitize other hidden data:

https://www.adobe.com/acrobat/resources/how-to-redact-a-pdf....

That failed redactions happen over and over and over is kind of amazing.


I hope you're not blaming the users. It's understandable they would be confused. The software needs to clarify it for the user. Perhaps, when you try to save it, it should warn you that it looks like you tried to redact text, and that text is still embedded in the document and could be extracted. And then direct you to more information on how to complete the redaction.

We have 30 years direct evidence that the users would ignore that warning, complain about the computer warning them too much, insist that the warning is entirely unnecessary, and then release a document with important information unredacted.

The problem is that the user generally doesn't have a functioning mental model of what's actually going on. They don't think of a PDF as a set of rendering instructions that can overlap. They think it's paper. Because that's what it pretends to be.

The best fix for this in almost any organization is the one that untrained humans will understand: After you redact, you print out and scan back in. You have policy that for redacted documents, they must be scanned in of a physical paper.


The problem is that the user generally doesn't have a functioning mental model of what's actually going on

Sorry, but a professional user not having an operational understanding of the tools they're working with is called culpable negligence in any other profession. A home user not knowing how MS Word works is fine, but we're talking desk clerks whose primary task is document management, and lawyers who were explicitly tasked with data redaction for digital publication. I don't think we should excuse or normalize this level of incompetence.


I don't expect radiologists to have a good understanding of the software involved in the control loops for the equipment they operate. Why should a lawyer have to have a mental model or even understand how the pdf rendering engine works?

Have you ever had to actually react a document in acrobat pro? It's way more fiddly and easy to screw up than one would expect. Im not saying professionals shouldn't learn how to use their tools, but the UI in acrobat is so incredibly poor that I completely understand when reaction gers screwed up. Up thread there's an in complete but very extensive list of this exact thing happening over and over. Clearly there's a tools problem here. Actual life-critical systems aren't developed this way, if a plane keeps crashing due to the same failure we don't blame the pilot. Boeing tried to do that with the max, but they weren't able to successfully convince the industry that that was OK.


if a plane keeps crashing due to the same failure we don't blame the pilot

That's true, we blame the manufacturer and demand that they fix their product under threat of withdrawing the airworthiness certification. So where's the demand for Adobe to fix its software, under pain of losing their cash cow?

Yet, people here are arguing that it is perfectly OK that professionals keep working with tools that are apparently widely known to be inappropriate for their task. Why should we not blame the lawyers that authorized the use of inappropriate tooling for such a sensitive task as legal redaction of documents?


The link in the comment you are replying to has a screenshot of exactly this. it’s a prompt with a checkbox asking you to delete the metadata and hidden info involved with the redaction. you’d have to blaze past that and not read it to make this mistake. It is user error.

I guess if you really want to defend users here you could say people are desensitized so much by popup spam that a popup prompt is gonna just be click through’d so fast the user probably barely recognizes it, but that’s not the software’s problem. For whatever reason some users would prefer to just put black boxes over obfuscated text, so here we are


Professional users doing more than 1 document? Yes, I'm absolutely blaming them.

I agree that affordances are good, but tools are tools, they can have rough edges, it's okay that it occasionally takes more than zero knowledge and attention to use them.


I hope you're not blaming the users.

If software developers designed hammers, you'd have to twist the handle before each swing to switch from tack to nail mode. And the two heads would be indistinguishable from each other.

If business MBA's designed them, you'd wind up with the SaaSy Claw 9000, free for the first month then $9.95 in recurring subscription fees, and compatible only with on-brand nails that each have a different little ad imprinted on the head.

But it doesn't matter, because by the end of the year all construction will be vibe-built from a single prompt to Clawde.ai, which will pound non-stop, burning through $1T of investor funds, and confidently hallucinate 70% of the nails until the roof collapses on the datacenter destroying the machine and civilization along with it, and a post-singularity survivor picks up a rock and looks calculatingly at a pointy shard of metal...


JIT dual hardware and software design and manifestation

The software could do better, sure, but in this case the accountability clearly falls on the lawyers. It's their job - and it's a job that can profoundly impact people's lives, so they need to take it seriously - to redact information properly.

Adobe's contempt for users strikes again.

The consequences of fucking it up are low, too.

If they get caught, they just take the document down and deny it ever got posted. Claim whatever people can show is a fake.

Since they control the levers of government, there's few with the resources and appetite for holding them accountable. So far, we haven't un-redacted anything too damning, so push hasn't come to shove yet.

The only might change if there's a "blue wave" in the midterms, but even then I wouldn't count on it.


I’ve not looked too deeply, but based on other discussion, I wonder if this was malicious noncompliance meant to reveal what the higher-ups were ordering hidden. If victims’ names are properly redacted that would be strong evidence.

It is more likely they have no conceptual understanding that the PDF is a file format. They likely assume that whatever is shown in the interface is what is exported.

Wonder for reducing burnout risk?

I don't know, maybe it's because my experience with Wonder was unique, to a degree.

My autistic stepson has the game. Loves Mario. Will gladly get into any game, whether it is an RPG like the Paper Mario or Mario & Luigi series, platformers like the core Mario games, or the action/adventure Luigi's Mansion. However there are parts and levels he knows he cannot do.

He also loves schedules. Monday is the "free" day, but every other day of the week has a planned activity. He's gotten better at being flexible, but he still likes the regularity.

And that's where I come in. I'm the "hard level" guy. And the last level of Mario Wonder, The Final-Final Test Badge Marathon, was just miserable. Eventually, I had to just tell him that if he wants to play another game, we'll just have to give this one up. The last section where you have to play blind is just too much.

So we moved on to Super Mario 3D World. Eventually, I did beat Champion's Road, but once again, it was just a chore.

I think the burnout reduction mostly comes from the ability to play in general. In my case, these games have become obligations for me.


Yeah, we can't really fault people for thinking something the government itself says.

The phrasing doesn’t make sense anyway. I think I have an individual social security account where they track how much I’ve paid and how much that will entitle me to receive. I also think I have an individual savings account with my bank, and an individual investment account with my brokerage. In none of these perceptions do I think there is a little bin with my money in it stored separately from everyone else’s money.

Social Security counts on there being a larger workforce every year.

If there's ever a significant population crunch of working age people, it would be in trouble. In 2018, the cost of the Social Security program exceeded total revenues for the first time.

At current rates, Social Security is projected to be insolvent by 2034.

The only ways to mitigate this is to spend less or make more. But no one wants to pay more and no one wants to give up anything.


That early-mid 2030s prediction has been consistent all my life. It has gone up a little as rules changed but nobody was ever willing for the big reforms that could make it work long term.

Yeah, that is two different things.

And 240mg is right under the lower end of the recommended dose.

So, two cups?

Or more likely, “drink this until you start to feel better”.


It's not that the money can predict what is correct, it's that it can tell us where people's values lie.

Those people who invested cash in blockchain believed that they could develop something worthwhile on the blockchain.

Zuckerberg believed the Metaverse could change things. It's why he hired all of those people to work on it.

However, what you have here are people claiming LLMs are going to be writing 90% of code in the next 18 months, then turning around and hiring a bunch of people to write code.

There's another article posted here, "Believe the Checkbook" or something like that. And they point out that Anthropic had no reason to purchase Bun except to get the people working on it. And if you believe we're about to turn a corner on vibe coding, you don't do that.


> However, what you have here are people claiming LLMs are going to be writing 90% of code in the next 18 months, then turning around and hiring a bunch of people to write code.

Very few people say this. But it’s realistically to say at the least in the next decade our jobs are going out the window.


The CEO of Nvidia is saying this.

So yeah, he's just "one guy", but in terms of "one guys", he's a notable one.


Someone also believed the internet would take over the world. They were right.

So we could be right or we could be wrong. What we do know is that from 2 years ago a lot of what people were saying or “believed” about LLMs are now categorically wrong.


Someone also believed the moon was made of green cheese. They were wrong.

And some of those beliefs they were wrong about is about when and how it will change things.

And my post is not about who is correct. It's about discerning what people truly believe despite what they might tell you up front.

People invested money into the internet. They hired people to develop it. That told you they believed it was useful to them.


So what you're saying is that two years ago, people were saying that AI won't take our jobs. And that it hasn't taken our jobs.

Fascinating.


It will bro.

It also has already taken junior jobs. The market is hard for them.


> It also has already taken junior jobs.

Correction: it has been a convenient excuse for large tech companies to cut junior jobs after ridiculous hiring sprees during COVID/ZIRP.


That’s part of it. You’d be lying to yourself if you think AI didn’t take junior jobs as well.

> It also has already taken junior jobs.

Well, its taken blame for the job cutting due to the broad growth slowdown since COVID fiscal and monetary stimulus was stopped and replaced with monetary tightening, and then most recently the economy was hit with the additional hammers of the Trump tariff and immigration policies, as lots of people want to obscure, deny, and distract from the general economic malaise (and because many of the companies, and even more of their big investors, involved are in incestuous investment relationships with AI companies, so "blaming" AI for the cuts is also a form of self-serving promotion.)


I'm also a little "meh" on the "innovatively incompetent" bit.

People get tunnel-vision. Facebook is for "Facebook things", TikTok is for "TikTok things". Reels, stories, whatevers isn't "TikTok".

It's why Facebook bought Instagram. No matter if Facebook copied Instagram down to the pixel, it still wouldn't be Instagram. And it's why the branding has remained consistent.

Same thing with Google and YouTube.

It's why these acquisitions happen and why these companies become something else. Google to Alphabet, Facebook to Meta, etc.

This just forces the sale of TikTok to someone in the U.S.


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