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Isn't this a self solving problem? If LLMs won't be able to solve a certain problem, arbitrage opportunities open to solve it as a human (by writing a blog post for example), just like in the old days, people typically did this for fame. I think LLMs can be understood as a really good way to search existing solutions, including combining multiple solutions in the fly. Only if something cannot be "found", we go back to the dynamics of before LLMs.

They're trying to make ChatGPT more attractive to advertisers.

I hope Anthropic or someone pulls an Apple and has the taste to say no to ads. Maybe it will just be Apple. (Even their resistance is slowly fading..)

We don't need to jam ads into every orifice.

I hope there's more value to be had not doing ads than there is to include them. I'd cancel my codex/chatgpt/claude if someone planted the flag.

OpenAI seems to think it has infinite trust to burn.


If you don’t want ads, pay for ChatGPT. If you aren’t making them money via ads or subscriptions, why should they care about you?

I think they really should charge with micropayments, and they could even roll out their own currency for that if need be. Ads suck.

Actually, all the AI companies together should choose a micropayment system to focus on. I know in fashion, I've seen what would seem like competing brands center around a common "pillar of influence."

Also, if (long-tail?) AI companies work together, they could install appliances and terminals around cities. The most immediate use case - transport timetables. It seems like a no-brainer the more I think about it. Especially good for tourists who don't speak the local language. Governments may end up wanting to do that anyway and could subsidize the cost. It really depends on how fixated people are to owning their own screen, versus using someone else's. Those city screens could end up billboards anyway - especially for local businesses. They could print for a fee too and third parties could pay to get their app listed. Also, it's worth considering the increase in wealth inequality and rising hardware costs for people to own and stream into their own device. So this could be like the Internet Cafe 2.0.

Incidentally, there's a recent thread about someone streaming HN to a cheap display: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46699782 - why not have such displays around town? I guess one major problem is vandalism.


People have been suggesting a micro payment system for the web for over a quarter century

https://www.w3.org/TR/1999/WD-Micropayment-Markup-19990825/

Why would you want to use a terminal for mass transit instead of your phone?


I prefer dumb phones, and then prefer to not have to carry one 24/7. Device lock-in is a whole other discussion. Why can't phones be switched off anyhow in terms of telco signal? Yet their Wifi and Bluetooth can be. Weird. What are they doing in stealth?

Look how cheap x402 transactions are (ie almost free) https://gemini.google.com/share/cbf1adb1570c It's a new thing - have business models adapted accordingly?


"source" of an LLM chat

https://www.x402.org/ >AI agent sends HTTP request and receives 402: Payment Required

>AI agent pays instantly with stablecoins

Smells like a weird ad to me.


Well, I was thinking of integrating payments into the scrolling chat, the more you scroll down, the more payment increments you hit. It happens in the background, and there can be a tally somewhere on the screen of how much you are spending. Also, compute usage can be used as a multiplier.

More is written about it here: "https://gemini.google.com/share/6113940b8e1e "What are the best examples of x402 payments being made currently?"

From what I've read on HN, running advertising technology is an expensive and complex undertaking. I'd be trying to skip it altogether and keep the subsequent costs, intrusions and headaches away from users.

The other good thing about micropayments: being able to instantly divert some of the revenue back to content and training sources. That'd make it more righteous too and make it more conducive to cooperation from them (eg realtime pings.) Content will improve as a result, better justifying the costs. Could lead to less bot rampage too lowering bandwidth costs overall.

It'd also remove the temptation (hopefully) for AI companies to resort to black-hatting: scamming, backdoors and trojans to recoup their costs. That's seriously important and code-checking can become less of a priority and thereby result in time-saving for end users.


You don’t think your preference for not using a smart phone makes a viable market do you - seeing global penetration of smartphones is 90% and even higher among those who can afford to travel?

I think compulsory 2FA and the trend towards must-have downloadable phone apps is a problem, but that may not be fully evident... yet. In my experience, being tied to a phone and phone number is a problem. Also, when you carry your phone, your funds are at risk too from tech-jacking (as opposed to car-jacking) .. especially with crypto, right?

"I keep a cheap travel eSim plan active on it so that if I am somewhere sketchy I can leave my main phone at home." https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46639157

It's a personal choice - you are also tied to a battery charger. Wait, solar panels are getting better.

Why is it so difficult to run a mobile app on a PC? Why can't there be a device that I connect to my laptop to turn it into a phone (voice + texts) whenever the need arises? Weird. What's with the identification required at SIM point-of-sale? Is someone trying to track me or something?


So now instead of carrying a phone around with you to make a call, you want to carry around a laptop?

Again, your use case is not a business model. What next bring back pay phones?


I'd be more inclined to carry around a smartphone if everything about it was open-source and based on open standards. It's just another networked computer, really.

Oh. I do pay since basically the day they offered it. It's not a matter that they should care.

No ads is a point of product differentiation. One among many. But in some sense ads are a natural resource curse that pervade the whole company. Again, I point to Apple vs Google/Meta.


People who haven't seen an ad or paid a subscription in 20 years are still trying to figure out why no one listens to their opinion on how to make the internet better.

I wouldn't hold my breath...


Not sure if you're referring to me, or making a more general comment.

I'd listen to someone who has managed to not see an ad or pay for a subscription in 20 years. Sounds pretty impressive.

Me, I've seen a lot of ads and happily paid for chatgpt plus, pro, and the api. Not that I think that privileges my opinion.


You give too much credit to Apple in the AI age. Especially since they've already partnered with Google to power Siri with Gemini now.

Apple is a has-been. Anthropic is best positioned to take up the privacy mantle, and may even be forced to, given that most of their revenue is enterprise and B2B.


I agree with you and it's really sad that Tim couldn't take Apple in the direction of user safety over profit.

I hope there's some layer between Apple and Gemini but only those at the helm can be trusted to make that happen and I don't trust them to choose users over the dollar.


> I hope there's some layer between Apple and Gemini

In the press release Apple said they will be running this on their own hardware (both on-device and private cloud). They're not going to be directly routing requests to Gemini hosted by Google.

This obviously doesn't preclude some kind of data sharing arrangement, but there is at least some indirection between the two.


Apple makes tens of billions of dollars per year on ads. Your conception of Apple and who they are have diverged.

Apple's ad revenue is ~5% of company revenue? It seems like the split could be a lot higher. They might have to give up something for that though.

Exactly. The more data they can collect, the better.

Is it not in OpenAI's best interested for them to accidentally flag adults as teens so they have to "verify" their age by handing over their biometric data (Persona face scan) or their government ID? Certainly that level of granularity will enhance the product they offer for their advertisers.


> We’re learning from the initial rollout and continuing to improve the accuracy of age prediction over time

> While this is an important milestone, our work to support teen safety is ongoing.

agreed, I guess we'll be seeing some pushbacks similar to Apple's CSAM but overall it's about getting a better demographics on their consumers for better advertising especially when you have a one-click actions combined with it. We'll be seeing handful of middleware plugins (like Honey) popping up, which I think the intended usecase for something like chat based apps


Random reply: 20 days ago you asked for my ChatGPT custom instructions to be more skeptical. It is :

Use an encouraging tone. Adopt a skeptical, questioning approach. Call me on things which don't seem right. List possible assumptions I'm making if any.


Whenever anything involving advertisers and AI comes up I wonder, are we supposed to believe both that they are on the cusp of creating God and that advertising revenue is a meaningful second goal?

Our of curiosity as I know nothing about economics, how would not printing miney lead to a Great Depression?

A crisis prevents people from earning money. No money means nobody buys anything. Nobody buys anything means no company can now sell stuff, so no revenue. Companies start closing down, so there are even more people who cannot earn money.

The government can print money and inject into the system. Some people have money so they continue to buy stuff but maybe at a slower pace or less amount. Things also can get expensive but it is not a total collapse.


one of the big problems of the great depression was banks went bankrupt left right and centre, and took everyone's life savings with them. Also as a lot of banks generally hold mortgages in their portfolio, so when a bank collapses it means that mortgages all get fucky too.

So the mass printing of money meant that banks didn't collapse.

It also meant that a fucktonne of cash went into the hands of the uber rich.


This is one of the reasons safety nets on savings exist in both the USA and in Europe (and probably other places as well about which I'm less informed). Even so, the tacit understanding is that this is more about preventing bank runs than about the practical effects on the currencies involved because it could very well be that that insurance will pay out in money that is worthless.

Why is this getting downvoted? Everything said here is true.

Because the propaganda apparatus is out of control.

Why is this getting downvoted?

My money is that influence campaigns are active on HN and try to mold the discourse. The whole internet is manipulated to hell, and HN is a prime target, you have a bunch of smart people that probably have oversized influence, how could you NOT try manipulating this place?

This is most certainly happening. A lot of US-critical articles also get flagged to death, even when they have a lot of upvotes and healthy, civilized discussion.

Yes to manipulation.

But also it asserts factually a lot that isn't true, which is why I downvoted.


Mostly an US audience here. A deeply divided country on politics. The wording doesn't help matters either.

It's unfortunate the same division tactics the US has been facing are working elsewhere too, however.


Mostly an US audience here.

I don't think mostly is true? Obviously it depends a lot on the time of day, but there are also a lot of Europeans on the site. Also, most comments here seem to be critical towards current US policy. So, I think there is quite a lot of manipulation going on, since the downvoting/flagging does not really match the comment section.


I think it's true. There is a significant audience here from other areas but this being an english language forum and one focused on tech means that the US is always going to have a dominant presence[1]. The US dominance also means that the news is highly focused on US events when it wanders out of tech which further reinforced the audience.

1. I believe Canada does have an outsized presence though!


From dang themselves: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16633521

So, 32-56% US, so not mostly US.


Because it makes people uncomfortable.

It's hysteria in the addictive, viral, breathless, and self-indulgent social media flavor that permeates everything.

The excitement being blown out of proportion is hyperlocal. The system grinds on.


Do i need to stop investing in msci world? what else would i invest in?

Btw while I think this is cool and useful for real time voice interfaces for the general populace, I wonder if for professional users (eg a dev coding by dictating all day), a simple push to talk is not always going to be superior, because you can make long pauses while you think about something, this would creep out a human, but the AI would wait patiently for your push to talk.

As a dev myself, I see a couple of modes of operation: - push to talk - long form conversation - short form conversation

In both conversational approaches the AI can respond with simple acknowledgements. When prompted by the user the AI could go into longer discussions and explanations.

It might be nice for the AI to quickly confirm it hears me and for it to give me subtle queues that it’s listening: backchannels: “yeah”, and non-verbal: “mhmm”. So I can imagine having a developer assistant that feels more like working with another dev than working with a computer.

That being said, there is room for all modes, all at the same time, and at different times shifting between them. A lot of time I just don’t want to talk at all.


Yes. Not necessarily 1 but a once in three generations high number, idk a 0,25.

I wonder how to survive? Nomad lifestyle?


I believe that's true: if Trump attacked Greenland, NATO would fall apart (regardless of Europe's response, if they allow it or not), and then Putin would have a once in a generation chance to take the baltics, maybe mess with Poland. He would have to take that chance, and then Europe would have to retaliate, and its effectively WW3.

Spooky times, let's hope things fizzle out back to a rule based Pax Americana.

Edit: Interestingly, the likelyhood of things fizzling out would jump up quite a bit if Trump or Putin were to die. I think the US system of government is prone to electing Trumps, but it's not a given, I think the cult of personality would die and things would relax for now.


> Putin would have a once in a generation chance to take the baltics, maybe mess with Poland

No resources for that. Russians are increasingly using horses instead of mechanization like IFVs or APCs. If he would try it, then it would open second frontline with Europe in Baltics while still fighting with Ukrainians. Awfully stupid idea.


> Awfully stupid idea.

Yes. But would that stop him?


? How is this Europe's fault?

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