I got the same info. Windows kernel is developed for B2B needs, if something might be useful to B2C, they might eventually get it, but they don’t affect the roadmap.
Psst, they already managed to turn the start menu into something that won’t load under one second if you don’t have 3 GB/s NVME drive, and for a while even didn’t respect Fitts law.
Tim Cook's fear of people not buying a full set of Apple devices for each person is the driving force behind not just the lack of multiuser support, but also the overall nerfing of iPadOS.
For the past 5+ years it's been, "This will be the year of real work on the iPad," but they keep circling around it, trying not to make iPads accidentally powerful enough for someone to skip buying a MacBook.
The flip side here is if I could use an iPad to replace the MacMini on my desk and connect to a monitor with the same support my Mac does I'd most likely have a top end iPad Pro as opposed to my mildly spec'd MacMini M2 and iPad Air M1. I'd literally spend MORE money on that 1 iPad than both existing iPad and Macs I have today.
Same. Plus with multi-user, I would own multiple size iPads since they instantly become more useful as shared family devices, rather than only being tied to one persons iCloud/messages/email. And more importantly for our old boy Tim - they would be larger storage sizes because they would be logged into multiple users.
Perhaps someone who's more versed in Apple tech can weigh in, but my limited understanding is that tvOS' users are mostly an illusion - the current user is just a flag exposed to running apps, and each app decides on its own what (if anything) they do with that information. There's no system-level separation of data or permissions for different users.
(In my experience, most non-Apple apps just seem to ignore user profiles on the Apple TV, and either behave as single-user apps, or have their own totally unrelated user profiles.)
Yeah, I think that's a assumption Apple made that most AppleTV devices would be in the same household where people can simply use the streaming app's ability to switch profiles. That sucks if you have roommates that pay for their own streaming subscriptions or the AppleTV device is in a common area such a dormitory. I suppose they could solve this by allowing ad-hoc profiles if AppleTV and user's IOS device is on the same network.
The user profile stuff as far as I can tell literally just determines the recently watched data in the Apple TV app. It doesn't even use your iCloud account when you select your account - I attempted to show some photos from my photo library on an Apple TV set up by someone else the other day and it just wanted to pop up their photos instead.
You must be a school or business with DUNS number and rigorous, manual verification through Apple to set up shared iPads with managed Apple IDs in the School or Business Manager Portal.
Yes, but you see it's even more profitable if apple can convince you to buy both. They can't allow you to not buy both because that will make shareholders sad
I mean we can always wish but I think Thi’s has been the major gripe for a number of years. They could run macOS today in an iPad. Alternatively they could at the very least copy some of the basic workflows in iOS but it’s just different enough that even with a keyboard the iPad feels off compared to a Mac.
> trying not to make iPads accidentally powerful enough for someone to skip buying a MacBook.
TBH, if you buy an iPad and their nice keyboard case, it costs almost as much as an MBA. This is one of the reasons I simply cannot justify getting a new iPad these days. The other is that my 8 year old iPad Pro still works just fine, in case I ever need to do iPad-ish things like draw with the pencil.
$270-$300 (used to be $350?) for the iPad keyboard. I feel like Apple did a good job targeting a user segment that is just happy to spend extra money on gadgets, aside from whoever really needs this laptop-tablet in-between.
Yeah I feel lucky to have picked one up for $199 back in the day. Still use it, though TBH it's mostly as a second monitor for my MBA, when I'm traveling. I don't work on the iPad itself that much, even though the keyboard is delightful.
> TBH, if you buy an iPad and their nice keyboard case, it costs almost as much as an MBA.
Right. Which, by my calculations, means it costs half as much as an MBA plus an iPad and their nice keyboard case.
Don't know how much either the iPad or the nice keyboard case cost by themselves, but probably more than 0. So even skipping the nice keyboard case and buying just a naked iPad in addition to the MBA still makes Apple more money.
Why would they forgo this if they're indeed the mustache-twirling capitalists like everyone says?
> they keep circling around it, trying not to make iPads accidentally powerful enough for someone to skip buying a MacBook.
Which is really silly, because if someone needs to do actual work they are not going to do it on an iPad no matter how capable it is. The form factor simply does not work for getting work done. Apple has nothing to fear here.
>Which is really silly, because if someone needs to do actual work they are not going to do it on an iPad no matter how capable it is. The form factor simply does not work for getting work done.*
Nonsens. The iPad is basically a 11 to 13 (Pro) monitor+computer with an amazing touch screen. Adding the official keyboard folio, or any bluetooth keyboard/mourse is trivial, and it makes for an excellent on-the-go machine. Not different to the 12-inch MacBook (circa 2015) and the older fan favorite 12-inch PowerBook G4 (circa 2003), and I know several devs who swore by them. Linus used and loved one of the latter (with PPC Linux on in his case).
The only issue is the lack of OS level support for some stuff, not the form factor.
Admins, devs working mostly on the Cloud, photographers, and writers already use it for "getting work done", I've seen execs too.
My monitor has a powered USB-C port and USB hub built into it. It's one cable to dock a laptop, it's pretty cool.
If I could plug my iPad into that cable to use it as a Mac I would do that all the time and buy a more powerful iPad. It would be an iPad for idle browsing and a Mac for the times I need a real computer.
You almost can. With Stage Manager enabled, an iPad plugged into a Studio Display is shockingly Mac-like. You get a menubar, windows that resize, a mouse pointer, etc. I could easily convince someone that they were on a Mac if I hid the iPad.
I don't like Stage Manager at all in undocked mode, though. I wish it would just turn on when the iPad was docked, and turn off otherwise.
the form factor is a problem. Have you ACTUALLY tried using an ipad as a laptop for more than a few minutes? It is top-heavy and falls over all the time. Even if you solve that problem, you now have multiple devices that you must keep charged and with you at all time.
That form factor exists on the windows side for about a decade now, so yes people do actually use it day to day for their work.
It's easy to forget that many laptops are used 99% plugged to a hub and an external monitor. I have a keyboard and mouse I like a lot, and having a tablet floating on an arm next to my other screen instead of half open clam with a useless keyboard pointing at me is incredibly freeing.
Even on the go, bringing a bluetooth (trackpoint II）keyboard is just better overall IMHO. It's up to people's taste, but tablet form factors are not some unsolved mistery. Commercial success would of course be another discussion.
Tablets will need to become a great deal lighter than they currently are before the awkwardness you describe will dissipate. Maybe after some kind of breakthrough in battery tech that allows for a much lighter and thinner battery?
Until then, I would agree that the old 12" MacBook still has a big leg up over an iPad + keyboard due to its clamshell form factor. It's so much less fussy for any use case where a keyboard matters.
I have a kickstand case with a magnetic Bluetooth keyboard and integrated 3rd party pen holder and it works just like a laptop but supports the pen, plus I can leave the keyboard behind and prop it on my treadmill to watch movies, etc. It's actually a lot more convenient than a laptop in a lot of circumstances.
You know you can use a standard Bluetooth and keyboard and mouse with an iPad? My wife uses her 13 inch iPad for everything - mostly Zoom, Office, everything web based, and “consumption”. I have an M2 MacBook Air that I bought in 2023 for a side project I was doing when I was in between jobs. I haven’t opened it since. I do the little bit of stuff I do outside of work on my iPad Air 3.
I've just never understood this. A 13" MacBook Air would accomplish everything better for me. A laptop has a stand for the screen built into it and it's much more stable on any surface vs a tablet case + stand.
Sure, it's easier to use a tablet while standing, but that's what I use my phone for, and it's always with me in my pocket. If I'm going to carry a 13" tablet around it might as well be a laptop which is thinner and lighter than a tablet + keyboard case.
Then there is always something annoying that I can't do on an iPad so I have to grab a real computer to do it.
I tried using iPads many times over the years but ended up selling them because a laptop + smartphone does everything I need better.
You stated "You know you can use a standard Bluetooth and keyboard and mouse with an iPad? My wife uses her 13 inch iPad for everything - mostly Zoom, Office, everything web based"
In my opinion all of that works better on a laptop. I don't use any streaming services so that functionality is not important for me, but I do recognize that may be important for some.
For me carrying a tablet + laptop while traveling would just be wasted space when I can and prefer to do everything on the laptop anyways.
My wife spends a lot more time in consumption mode and rarely uses it as a “productivity device”
And you can’t download movies from streaming services on a laptop and I have unlimited cellular data on our laptops for $25 a month. When I say we travel a lot - I mean we were on a plane going somewhere over a dozen times last year and this year we are spending a month and half doing the digital nomad thing in another country right now and we will be doing one way trips across 4 cities for two months this summer.
Yeah but the cheapest iPad only costs $300. Not all of us can afford a MacBook Air. Not to mention I found a case which has a kickstand feature + magnetic BT keyboard + pen to make it work like a laptop + added pen functionality ($60 for all of those 3rd party accessories).
So you don’t understand why someone who doesn’t need a computer most of the time might rather have an iPad?
Besides, you can’t get a MacBook with cellular and you can’t download movies to use offline with most streaming services on a Mac since most of them don’t have Mac apps.
We travel a lot. Even I take my laptop + iPad + external USB powered/USB video display that works with one USB cable. Most of the time I just use my external display. But I can use my iPad as a third display.
I really use my personal laptop for nothing. I left it at home while we are spending a month and a half in another country. When I get off work, I don’t think about using my computer for anything - I don’t do side projects and haven’t for 30 years.
Cue my old manager SSH’ing into work machines while on his boat from his iPad - it does happen. Not saying that working on it is the norm by any means, but it’s about on par with “my android phone is logged in to my tmux session on the dev server and I’m cowboy coding from the bar”
I haven't seen one yet, but theoretically a case that secures the tablet in a holder that has a proper hinge (instead of the typical kickstand style) attached would work. You'd have to weight the keyboard a bit but there's no reason it wouldn't work, and effectively give you the exact same form factor as a laptop.
i bought a magic keyboard for my 11" ipad pro and ultimately didn't use it much. it does have a traditional laptop-style hinge, but the way the ipad mounts to the case brings it forward over the keyboard more than with a regular laptop. the hinge also doesn't allow for a very wide range of motion (even compared to macbooks). finally, the center of gravity is really high compared to a laptop which makes it awkward to use as a literal laptop or when lying down.
it definitely looks cool (i could see the design having been inspired by the OG Mac and 20th Anniversary Mac) but works best on a stable surface; plus if you want to use it purely as a tablet, you're left with a big clunky keyboard case to deal with.
the idea of a laptop/tablet combo is cool but i haven't seen the concept executed very successfully from either starting point.
the point of that hinge, besides weight distribution, is to make it easy to reach and touch the bottom of the screen, and so that it's not fully perpendicular to your finger.
and that particular subproblem of using a tablet as a notebook - it solves it well! but it's still a little weird when you try to use it like a laptop. maybe this is a cop-out but it definitely feels like a product that would not have passed the Jobs test in its current form.
You would be correct. If the ipad let you use full osx it would be pretty attractive to me and I probably would have spent the 5 minutes needed to discover the magic keyboard, but unfortunately the idea of buying a computing device with such insanely powerful hardware but being locked into standard tablet UX really doesn't excite me.
I would absolutely carry an iPad Pro with a dev environment with me on the holidays for emergencies instead of macbook. And I could add a cheap keyboard, mouse, and connect it to TV to get good enough work environment.
Or connect it to dock at home, just like I do with the macbook.
Any time I think about doing this, I remind myself of the news story[0] about the iPad Pro + Magic Keyboard being heavier than a MacBook Air. I believe it was thicker as well.
I’m not sure if it’s still the case, as they trimmed down the iPad Pro quite a bit, but I don’t think the iPad is that much of a boon for travel. For the size and weight, it seems moot. I’d rather have the keyboard and trackpad of a proper MacBook, full macOS, and a system that won’t fall apart. The last time I took an iPad on a plane, the person in front of me reclined, hit the iPad, and it flew off the magnetic keyboard and I had to fish around for it on the floor. Thankfully it didn’t break.
But why? A 13" MacBook Air is smaller and lighter than carrying a tablet + keyboard + mouse. And iOS is always going to be more difficult to do real work on vs MacOS.
> But why? A 13" MacBook Air is smaller and lighter than carrying a tablet + keyboard + mouse.
Because portability isn’t just about weight?
There are plenty of situations where a tablet for many will be more usable than a laptop. Cramped spaces, on a plane, laying back on a couch, standing, quick pull-outs in public, or maybe when they want something that feels more personal rather than “I’m working now.” That last one is a big one. A LOT of IT people I know have moved to tablets for their personal machines because they want to be as far away as possible from anything their brain can connect to work.
Given OP specifically said “for emergencies” and “good enough,” that suggests to me they are looking for flexibility, not maximum capability, largely an area in which the modern tablet for a not insignificant number of people, excels.
> And iOS is always going to be more difficult to do real work on vs MacOS.
If your workflow depends on native macOS software, then sure, maybe. But for people whose work is browser based, cloud based, or remote (SSH, RDP, SaaS tools), iOS is perfectly viable. I know people running entire businesses from iPads and its not just viable, they prefer it, they don't even own computing devices outside of iOS/Android.
Personally, I don’t use an iPad for work, but realistically, I could. SSH exists, and most of what I use lives in a browser anyway.
Why? My wife and travel a lot and we spend extended periods of time away from home. I can’t imagine wanting to work from just an iPad. My travel and home setup is a Roost laptop stand, an Apple BT keyboard and mouse and a portable USB C monitor with a stand
My dad and my brother use ipad pros for their healthcare business and rarely use laptops. For them, the year of real work happened several years ago. My brother even has a mouse for it somehow.
Yeah they should even just let you install macOS if you want, they’d probably sell a lot of overpriced storage at a minimum and people still wouldn’t use them for real work…
That’s their goal (or it used to be). When the iPad was first released the idea was that the iPad would be all 80% of people needed.
The metaphor of cars vs trucks was used. For heavy duty work, trucks (Macs) will always be around. For everyone else, a car (iPad) will do just fine.
When the iPad nano was released they killed off the best selling iPad, the mini. Their statement on this was that they want to be the one to cannibalize their own products. If they don’t do it someone else will. Look at the iPhone, it made the iPod obsolete. Had they missed the boat on smartphones like Microsoft, they’d be screwed, as the iPod was half the business. Instead, they make way more on iPhones than they ever did on iPods. iPhone replaced the iPod sales and then some.
Yes. I want to blame auto-correct, but “o” and “a” are so far apart that I’m just not sure. Of course I’ve had modern iOS autocorrect do much worse, because it does what it thinks instead of what I type.
And especially more silly, since they'll soon launch a cheap A-series chipped MacBook. Why can I have multiple users on a $700 MacBook, but not a $1500 iPad Pro?
> Which is really silly, because if someone needs to do actual work they are not going to do it on an iPad no matter how capable it is. The form factor simply does not work for getting work done.
I know plenty of people who in fact have moved to an iPad as a primary computing device, including for work/business. Including a handful of engineering leaders using remote-code solutions.
Bean Counter Tim is going to drive Apple into the ground before he does anything useful. Just look at the current state of the ecosystem when it comes to UI/UX and software stability.
I mainly use my iPad Pro like a MacBook with the Magic Keyboard and a Razer mouse (I can even play ARC Raiders perfectly on it, streamed from the gaming pc in another room; having a completely silent gaming setup in the living room is amazing) connected.
My macOS muscle memory works most of the time, but there are also quite some details which are slightly different or missing. If they would allow a macOS “mode” on iPad I would choose it over a MacBook instantly for work.
I’ve been experimenting with a 13” iPad Pro and Mac mini, setup with Tailscale. I love it, minus the general issues you run into with Remote Desktop. That plus not being able to deploy apps unless I’m on the same wifi (as an iOS developer.)
A dual boot iPad would be killer. I would go out and by the maxed out M5 if it was possible. MacOS for workdays, and iPadOS for everything else. That or just finish the last mile of iPadOS (Add terminal access, long running processes, lower level file system access, actual developer tooling.)
Remote Desktop is another nerfed thing. Windows is sending around window positions and UI primitives, while Mac still streams terribly compressed and lagging video of desktop, unable to even adapt resolution to client.
Fwiw, Modern Windows is mostly DWM, and doesn't get the benefit of using GDI primatives for any serious work, so it's also "just" sending compressed video streams. These days it's basically all H.264/5 thanks to GPUs taking over.
I’m using the iPad Magic Keyboard which is also a stand. So it’s pretty much the same as using a MacBook. I do have the 13 inch. I tried the 11 inch but personally I found that too small to use comfortably like this.
I bought M1 pro ipad that ended up being on a windowsill in kitchen as a youtube tv or a again a youtube viewport while rowing, lol. What a waste, but I cannot find a better use for it. User interface also sucks, half the time i have to ask chatgpt to extricate me from some accidental split screen or what not. Kicker is that it needs to be charged almost daily while it is really only used about 30-45 min a day in the morning while my kids m4 air can go for a week.
To be fair, back when it was released it did do that. I didn’t use my iPad often in 2010, but it held onto its charge extremely well. Almost no loss while sitting idle.
I think all the push notification, cloud syncing, and everything else in the background are what kill it now.
As someone who very occasionally used my iPad, I think this may be the root cause of why I gave up on it and no longer own one. I didn’t use it a lot, so the battery was always dead when I went to pick it up. This wasn’t a problem with the first gen.
I’ve accepted that I need to charge my phone daily. I will not charge something like an iPad or laptop daily. If I’m not using it on battery for 8+ hours per day, there should be no reason it can’t hold a charge. There should be a proper sleep mode, instead of just turning off the display like on a phone. I always find it awkward and frustrating when an iPad is getting a bunch of notifications, waking up the screen, every few minutes while no one is even near it and those notifications are also going to the person’s phone.
I feel the same way about the Apple Pencil. I would have used it more if they used Wacom-style tech that didn’t require the stylus be charged. Then it could simply be picked up and used… like a pencil. I don’t know what the Apple Pencil’s excuse is for not being able to hold a charge.
They spend plenty of time adding "pro" features and apps like Final Cut Pro and Logic Pro, which they wouldn't do unless they wanted people to use them.
I'm willing to bet it's as simple as that no Apple SWEs or anyone who has to edit video or sound uses an ipad for work. As soon as Apple forced some to use one, they'd fix all of the UI problems that make them a nightmare.
Yeah, everyone I know who owns an iPad for personal use, they also own a laptop. It's possible they use the iPad more than the laptop, but they still need the laptop, which might be a Mac.
I could excuse it if the iPad was a $200 novelty like the Amazon Fire tablets, but they're putting M-series chips in them and marketing (and pricing) them like PC replacements.
I just picked up a new iPad with A16 chip for roughly $300 - sure they aren't M-series level but it's plenty fast for all of my day-to-day tasks, with good battery life and 3rd party keyboard/case/pen for another $60 and it functions like a laptop when I need a laptop.
> Yes, you can use a Mac laptop with your phone acting as a hotspot but unless you have unlimited data, that gets expensive real fast.
And why exactly is that different from having the cellular connection on iPad? You can have the exact same data plan on your phone that you use as hotspot.
I'm not really in this boat (don't have an ipad, no use for it) but if I did, it would actually cost me more to have a SIM in it than just share the internet from my phone. Having a second SIM for my plan would cost me 2€ / moth extra, with no other benefit: internet usage by that 2nd SIM would be deducted from my plan, which would remain otherwise the same.
I think some (most?) carriers in the US charge for hotspot traffic separately from direct access from the phone (by looking at packet's TTL, it's lower by 1)
Working as intended. Even the way you framed it. Every family member has a separate physically distinct iPad, paid for separately. It's never considered that two people might be able to use the same hardware, which is the question here.
> Hard to share the things people use at the same time.
Yes, but if it's your goal to have fewer cars, then you'd make an effort not to need to use it at the same time. If that's not what you're trying to do, fine. My wife and I share a car. It's slightly inconvenient sometimes, but really not bad at all. For our particular life anyway.
So here we're talking about iPads. Some families need multiple devices for various reasons. Some don't except for the fact that iPads don't support accounts. No one's saying you would have to use them. But you're not allowed to.
1 car for our family of four seems to work fine for us in the city. Hard to imagine people with different living situations.
I held off a while on giving my youngest child his own iPad because he and his brother were playing nicely together on one more often than not. It turned iPad time into social play-together time.
What's the point here? Then you'll need another car?
Remember, we're comparing to iPads. Apple intentionally hobbles them to induce demand for multiple iPads. This isn't a question of being allowed to own multiple iPads/cars. It's a question of being artificially prevented from owning a single one.
The point isn't that you have to commit to being a single-car household for life. It's that at some points in time, you can be.
I’m 51 and I can’t remember ever going to a house with only one TV. Even my grandparents had multiple TVs and I definitely had one in my room since I was 4.
A quick Google search says that 50% of households had more than one TV in 1980.
Same. I grew up in the 80's and we always had at least 2 TVs for a family of four. My sister and I both had small TVs in our bedroom once we were teens, so that was one TV per person at that point! To be fair, they were mostly used for video games...
I'm not being sarcastic. And I really don't think my household is that far above average. We have three "living room" type areas. One in each bedroom. One in my office. One in my wife's office. I'd wager the American average is >1 per person in the house.
Before we downsized to a 2 bedroom condo (where we do have 3), we had 6 in our house - our bedroom, son’s bedroom, home gym, living room, wife’s room and guest bedroom.
I don't understand how a trillion dollar company can't at this point say "you know what, I think we're good on the profit front, let's convert some of that into improving UX"
If only any of their former leaders and one of the most famous people ever had said something like "If you don't cannibalize yourself, someone else will"...
Well maybe that kind of company would've been aggressive about always being competitive, yeah? Instead of whatever Tim Cook is doing...
> trying not to make iPads accidentally powerful enough for someone to skip buying a MacBook.
This clearly isn’t the case—the iPad Pro got the M4 processor in May 2024; the Mac didn’t get the M4 until October. So for a few months, Apple’s most powerful chip was only available for the iPad Pro.
And while the M5 MacBook Pro and the M5 iPad Pro were announced together in October 2025, none of the other Mac models have been updated to the M5.
It’s possible more M5 Macs will be announced this week; we’ll see.
I don’t think it matters to Apple whether you spend $1,000+ for an iPad or for a MacBook.
I may be an outlier, but multi-user support might make me buy more iPads. Basically, an iPad Air for each major room in the house. Then my wife and I, plus guests, could pick up which ever one is closest.
Today, we just have on each and have to run around the house whenever we want it.
I think if people had a use case for it they’d buy more of the damn things. Right now I’d never need a device separate from my spouse since I just don’t need one.
Make is useful and buyers will come. The never had issues selling multiple macs frankly.
Playing devil’s advocate the only real device I truly would want to have multi user switching is the Vision Pro due to cost and features . If multiple users were to be added to the iPad would there be enough people to justify the long term use of the device ? I feel like this is a HN filter bubble desire just like small phones .
I think people want multi-user because most people still need their laptops for work (or hobbies sometimes). Otherwise, I'd be on my phone (for casual messaging, media consumption). iPad is mostly just sitting around most of time, so it can be quite easily shared b/w people in same household.
I love it too, but I would still like some concept of folders, so that I could sort my feeds into eg. programming, design, hobbies, and then have a feed to match the mood.
You’d have consumed probably 2+ magnitudes of energy or more just for coffee (and its growth and supply chain) to write that piece of code. Not counting the building, food, transportation…
It is amazing, but "open source model" means "model I can understand and modify" (= all the training data and processes).
Open weights is an equivalent of binary driver blobs everyone hates. "Here is an opaque thing, you have to put it on your computer and trust it, and you can't modify it."
That's unfair. Binary driver blobs are blackmail: "you bought the hardware, but parts of the laptop won't work unless you agree to run this mysterious bundle insecurely". Open weight is more like "here's a frozen brain you can thaw in a safe harness to do your bidding".
Not equivalent to the binary driver: you can modify it yourself with post training on your own data. So it sits somewhere between NVIDIA userspace drivers and Emacs, or Clade Code and codex-cli. We don’t have good analogies from older generation software.
Awesome, let's look at this in privacy conscious browser:
> The link to this photo or video may be broken, or the post may have been
removed.
> [Visit Instagram]
Transcribed: "We probably deleted or misplaced documentation of that thing someone spent 21 years creating. We don't care - this way to feed of AI generated cat videos."
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