The article makes claims that Apple has changed, which is why there is a decline in fanboy praise for the company. But from the outside it just looks like business as usual.
This is absolutely categorically not true, Apple use to prioritize the advantages of macOS, which made it a great platform for the big creative tasks, like media creation and editing, and programming (programming is actually one of the areas macOS has taken the least number of hits). Here's Adam Lisagor talking about old Apple (original release of Final Cut Pro) vs new Apple (release of Final Cut Pro X) (https://lonelysandwich.com/post/7033868135/fcp-the-new-class):
> When Apple pushed FCP to the industry pros five or six years ago, they did some hardcore outreach. They brought out Walter Murch, for God’s sake. The man cut Cold Mountain on it for God’s sake. They evangelized by showing what had been done, not by what could be done. But this time out, there is no evangelizing. No Murch. They do a dog and pony with vapid car footage or a Pixar trailer or something. This is meaningless to industry pros who need to know one thing, and it’s a very simple thing: can I edit a _____ on it? You know what I want to know? Can Louie CK edit his show on FCP X? Would he? Would he be happy to do it? Would he speak to a crowd of people about the experience?
I could go on in countless ways the company has changed, this is just one axis.
They've been pursuing lock-in and feigning superiority since at least the late '00s. The intensity at which they do that has accelerated, but I think the rate at which they are doing this over time has increased consistently.
It's been a great business model, and I'm not in anyway claiming people don't really truly love using their products.
To be fair, the same writing is on the wall for Google (they're just bad at it but will figure it out eventually).
> They've been pursuing lock-in and feigning superiority since at least the late '00s.
Again these could use evidence/examples.
But there also tangential to examples I was giving, personally I don't factor in lock-in or "feigning superiority", I just care if the platform is great for certain tasks like media creation and editing, and then becoming worse at that is a recent thing.
Since you could look at what they've done over the years as easily as I, I'll be brief:
They make Apple-only software that only work with other Apple devices, like Logic Pro, FCP, GarageBand, XCode, Safari (though it used to work on Windows), etc. Which is all fine and expected, but is part of the lock in.
But then there are the protocols like Handoff, AirDrop, Continuity, iCloud, iMessage, FaceTime, and more. AirTags were a security nightmare for most of the world until they allowed Android some access to the protocol. Then there are the Draconian App Store policies that ended up getting them in "trouble" with the EU.
Quick example for feigning superiority: "Mac vs PC". Before those commercials "PC" just meant any desktop, but their (absolutely genius!) marketing figured out a way to differentiate while dissing Windows.
> the platform is great for certain tasks like media creation and editing
I'm positive there have been and still are really great software experiences and paradigms built by Apple; I just get immensely frustrated trying to navigate them (flip your mouse upside and then try to use it... that is an extreme example of the frustration I experience navigating most Apple software -- it comes down to just not being used to it).
All that to say: we're not really thinking about the same aspects of the company, since I'm really just on the periphery, and you're in the midst of it.
Yeah all of these are perfectly fair things to dislike Apple about, and I agree they haven't changed much on these fronts.
I was just pointing out there are areas they've changed dramatically, and I only gave one example, I could provide a bunch more.
Personally I don't care much about Apples marketing (literally hard to imagine something I could possibly care less about), and don't even care too much about iOS App Store shenanigans (for the most part, I think Apples approach is a decent fit for the type of device mobile devices are).
But I do care a lot about Apple being worse for media creation today, and the neglect of AppKit for example, and the overall direction of macOS, and those are relatively recent changes.
I think this depends on how far you go back. I think Apple has increasingly become a "service" company rather than a company which sells hardware. I do think that the old mantra: "to sell hardware you need to write software" is still true, but I'd personally argue that the main reason Apple has the "easiest to use out of the box" software in 2024 is because their competition sucks.
I'm probably an Apple fanboy. I switched to Apple in 2012 after I stopped enjoying the whole "tinkering" part which made running Linux so fun. These days, with the ever increasing lock-in (and price hikes on cloud services) I'd like to get out. Further increased by the fact that Apple doesn't make a small phone (I have relatively small hands). The issue is that I don't really want to deal with Google either. I also don't want to deal with not having the Apple or Google stores on my phone because most of the apps I use (like banking, national IDs, healthcare, tickets for public transportation and others) aren't available outside of those. If I'm on iOS it's still easier to just have the smallest MacBook Air, than to bother getting something else and then setting up synchronisation and so on. But I don't think Apple is "cool" anymore.
Not that I disagree with you completely, they were always "evil" but at least they used to make cool stuff.
I don't agree that they write good or intuitive (easiest to use) software, but that's just me. I've hated nearly all of their software paradigms (while drooling over their hardware), except for the pinnacle of human achievement: the iPods with the click wheel.
But I think the Apple "cult" and the increasing lock in to the ecosystem is party if a negative feedback loop: developers often make apps only for Apple, or make it for Apple first, or just half-ass their Android/Windows versions. So the lock in is encouraged by Apple and amplified by developers. But the while time they are paying for the privilege of the wall garden (and before people get confused again, "walled garden" is just a way of saying "pretty prison", it is not meant to imply you are hanging out at a 5-star all-inclusive resort).
> But the while time they are paying for the privilege of the wall garden
Again this could use further extrapolation, in vacuum I think we can agree a walled garden is worse for developers than an open platform (for users I'd say that balance is a lot less clear, but if I try to make that argument some folks completely lose it). But we don't live in a vacuum, so I'd say most developers who build for Apple platforms do so because they prefer the toolchain, and that trumps the value of an open platform for them. I used to develop for Apple platforms, and I still think the toolchain is better than anything else I've ever used, and it's not close (I like the debugger integration, the memory tools, and Instruments).
I mean "I don't like X because Y", if you just say categorically "I don't like anything they've done" it just makes you sound like your opinion is really an internal bias against the company, if you support it with evidence and examples, it makes your opinion sound considered.
If someone hands me an iPhone or Mac and asks me to try to do things I feel frustration.
Just rambling here: the navigation paradigms, where the settings are, the animations, cursors, the way the mouse accelerates, the keyboard shortcuts, the icons on windows, maximizing windows, the dock, navigating with Finder creates invisible files directories, the "drag to install" nonsense is one of the dumbest UX paradigms ever (I'm not being facetious).
I hope my random ramblings about things I don't assuages your feeling that I'm being inconsiderate. I'm sure there are people who love everything above and who think its perfect.
> If someone hands me an iPhone or Mac and asks me to try to do things I feel frustration.
Wouldn't this be true if you put anyone in front of an unfamiliar OS?
> Just rambling here: the navigation paradigms, where the settings are, the animations, cursors, the way the mouse accelerates, the keyboard shortcuts, the icons on windows, maximizing windows, the dock, navigating with Finder creates invisible files directories, the "drag to install" nonsense is one of the dumbest UX paradigms ever (I'm not being facetious).
I summarize most of these as "I don't like the feel of it" which is a straightforward matter of opinion, but that's a different statement then what we started with "I don't agree that they write good or intuitive (easiest to use) software, but that's just me." A statement like this would would also mean showing how another platform does it and demonstrating why that's better or more intuitive. But I guess if you had just said "I don't find their software good or intuitive", I wouldn't have bothered asking these questions. But then, per my first comment, I think if you out anyone in front of an unfamiliar OS and asked them to use it, it would literally take years of use before they'd have an opinion that's not biased based on their prior experience. This is why I don't comment much on how Linux or Windows do things, I just don't have the expertise to say whether their approach is better or worse.
One exception is keyboard bindings, because a lot of keyboard bindings come to macOS from Windows especially in the form of cross platform applications, and I've formed the opinion that Windows bindings are worse because of the over reliance on F-keys, which are too far from the homerow and not mmemonic. (This is an example of of what I mean about giving an example, and then a reason I think it's worse).
For the record I appreciate your responses, I'm being super pedantic here and you're putting up with it. I feel like, especially when it comes to Apple on HN, which makes people blood boil, it's so hard to figure what people are even talking about when they make their statements. I really think the model of supporting statements with reasoning makes the statements so much ire useful to read.
> Wouldn't this be true if you put anyone in front of an unfamiliar OS?
Not in the same way, but only since Apple is very popular, so it happens often (and Apple fans like to claim things like "the devices are far superior to competitors" which irks me a little, haha).
Sometimes Apple paradigms are just a little bit different than what I know well, which makes it even harder for me since the similarity can make me operate on autopilot, but my autopilot then steers me wrong. When things are drastically different its just a matter of learning (and probably forgetting, since I don't use Apple quite often enough) the new thing, which I usually find pretty unintuitive.
> I summarize most of these as "I don't like the feel of it"
I'd summarize all of them as "I don't like the feel of it".
> "I don't like the feel of it" which is a straightforward matter of opinion, but that's a different statement then what we started with "I don't agree that they write good or intuitive (easiest to use) software, but that's just me."
I really thought "I don't agree [...] but that's just me" would communicate that it's my straightforward matter of opinion.
> if you had just said "I don't find their software good or intuitive", I wouldn't have bothered asking these questions
You are just rephrasing what I said: "I don't agree that they write good or intuitive (easiest to use) software, but that's just me." is saying the same thing as "I don't find their software good or intuitive". Maybe I should work on my online communication skills.
> I really think the model of supporting statements with reasoning makes the statements so much ire useful to read.
I appreciate this.
On "polarizing" issues (to the HN crowd) like Apple, Rust, Blockchain, etc. I've discovered that supporting statements don't usually accomplish much, other than to bait commenters that want to defend a counterpoint without listening (I probably shouldn't have commented in the first place)
> You are just rephrasing what I said: "I don't agree that they write good or intuitive (easiest to use) software, but that's just me." is saying the same thing as "I don't find their software good or intuitive". Maybe I should work on my online communication skills.
Yeah I'm probably being too pedantic here, but to me "they don't write good or unintuitive software" means they should design their software differently (presuming you assume Apple values these things which I think they do), whereas "I don't find their software good or intuitive" means that you personally found their software difficult to use.
For example, I have over 10000 commits in my dotfiles, like I'm not a typical user, so for me whether I personally find their software good or intuitive isn't something I'd factor in to whether the software is good or intuitive for most users, because I personally am such an outlier from a typical user (which I also assume you, and most HN readers really, also are).
I've had generally mediocre experiences with Apple products - the original MacBook Air, two iPad Minis, an early iPhone. And for whatever reason, I prefer Windows and Android to MacOS and IOS.
But I agree that an iPod with the click wheel is the pinnacle of human achievement. The iPod Classic was the best device I've ever owned.
The best thing imo about the clickwheel was it required no training or practice to use. Everyone and their grandmas can pick it up and just use it straight away. Very few hardware interfaces have ever achieved that ubiquity.
Yes, it seems like they don't understand than basically fans follows the brand no matter where it goes, and developers will continue to develop there if there is a market (including fans!), even if they are not fans.
