Not what I said. Have you ever seen plumbers being treated as rock stars?

And maybe I even implied that software engineers are the lesser thing here, because LLMs can't do hard plumbing yet.

In many places in the US you might find it hard to get a plumber to even return your calls or come out to your house for a smaller job, since the good ones have as much work as they could ever want. Not a perfect comparison since plumbers tend not to work for giant companies that can lavish them with perks, but there are parallels in in-demand skilled labor getting to set some of their own rules.

Plumbers are paid quite well and they deal with actual, literal shit. It is not glamorous work, but I would have to guess there is likely less disillusionment and burnout in plumbing overall compared to software.

I have family that work in trades and this is just not true at all.

They are literally focused on retirement, pension and next time off once past the apprentice stage.

Why? Because the work is terrible. Really demanding physical work in terrible conditions. Unimaginable really for anyone who works remote.

Then it just gets worse as you get older and your body breaks down. Then your really just holding on to get to retirement and that pension so you can finally relax and enjoy life without doing this awful job before you die.

No thanks. I am so glad I didn't go down that path. The romanticization of the trades on here is completely delusional. I think it is just the level of being disconnected from physical labor most are on here. Physical labor is not fun when your young and just gets harder and harder with age.

aye this one. got a lot of fam in welding and carpentry.

good money. uncle who is a welder has travelled all over working different gigs. got certified to do underwater welding, too, which is terrifying for a lot of reasons. but it's hell on the eyes, joints, and the UV can even cause skin cancer.

other fam in carpentry make good money. north of 6 figures, and that was in 2010. but it's demanding: show up at 6am, haul things and hammer all day, crawl around in weird angles, and do it all in -5C or +35C.

both eventually tapped out after ~25-30 years. one ran the business in the office and the other just got a job in home depot. meanwhile I'll probably program until I can't sit upright -- could be coding in the retirement home, as long as me brain works.

I haven't but I believe that if it makes them better at their job they would be treated so. most plumbers are independent freelancers and for them that's a rock star way to live

> Have you ever seen plumbers being treated as rock stars?

There will always be a need for many people to do plumbing work. Can we say that about software engineering?

Many people worked on vanity/side projects of some corporations. And those jobs are gone, since there's not so much free money anymore.

I have compared AI to junior engineers a few times. Not in terms of treatment, but in terms of output quality. Is there a better analogy I should prefer? Or if my thinking is horribly wrong, I'd love a different perspective to think on.

They mean it as an analogy in the sense of digital plumbing.

True I understand that. Digital plumbing is not a lesser thing. It's part of the job. Software engineering is done better when being "pampered" regardless if it's plumbing or rocket science. If companies want to stop pampering then sit back and watch. Bad software will be noticed

And while some of the "pampering" is excessive, an awful lot of it is just "giving your valuable employees, the ones who actually do all the work that makes you money, a good place to work that's conducive to creative work and solid work-life balance."

Like...being bought the best equipment for the job they're doing? Making high-quality foods available on-site? Even something as simple as having great desk chairs, I can say from frustrating personal experience, can make a huge difference.