In absolute numbers the gap is considerably wider due to differences in salaries. And all that while cars and fuel are significantly cheaper in the US.
In the co-working space I rent there are around 50 parking spots and half as much bicycle stands. In the warm period between the solstices the latter is packed and I have trouble finding a stand.
I started cycling mostly because they removed the free gravel parking area not counted in the usual spots, but I've found I don't miss driving as much as I thought I would.
The majority (60-70%) of Europeans still commute by car. Distances might be shorter and their cars might use less fuel but on the whole its still more appealing option for most people (despite quite a few countries trying to actively change it by making it more expensive and leas convenient).
Indeed they do, but out of convenience, not necessity. And I get it - I much prefer driving if the distance is more than say 7km or when it's raining or really cold or really hot.
That being said I estimate that in Europe people who genuinely need a car in their day-to-day lives are closer to 40-45% of all commuters. It was noticeable in the first days of the Hormuz Strait crisis, when the government fuel subsidies didn't kick in yet.
A big part of it is taxes, European countries tend to tax fuel pretty heavily.
If heating oil is still a thing where you are, compare its prices to diesel (especially historically). They’re nearly the same product, the difference is almost entirely fuel taxes.
In the UK, farm vehicles use a specially dyed Red Diesel, which is the same liquid with a chemical added to it to turn it red. It’s taxed at a much lower rate, so you’ll sometimes pass petrol stations selling two Diesel from two different pumps, one of which is around half the price of the other.
If you’re caught running red diesel on a normal carriageway, the penalty can be steep.
In Germany that red stuff is applied to all diesel, not only agricultural use.
And it's not the same liquid. From first principles maybe, but not after it has gone through the supply chain until it reaches you.
Anecdotical evidence from decades ago, when I had an oil-fired oven for heating.
With a big barrel in the cellar, which you let fill by hose from a truck maybe once a year.
And hand pumped into a can every few days, and carried that up, to fill the tank of the oven. One year I was rather broke, and that barrel empty. And then came winter.
Thought I'd be smart, because it's just the 'same stuff', right?
Walked to the Aral maybe 200 meters away, filled a canister.
That 'same stuff' made the fire drum clog from the inside with the finest carbon, like those mushrooms which grow like disks from the side of trees.
That never happened with just oil. And that was normal Aral diesel, nothing special.
One can also notice a difference in smell with older cars. Just oil stinks more.
We used to have red diesel for agricultural use which was tax exempt. So they added a coloring agent which would make your tank red and thus noticeable if you used it in a regular car.
Not too sure about the engines as of late. Bigger and heavier vehicles - yes, but still mostly rural/highway, and at way lower speeds than the EU. Overall, IMO it's just the distances involved.
Not so much the efficiency of the engine but the weight and size of the vehicle. Almost all new cars in the US are turbo charged 4 cylinders if not hybrids or pure electric, but US consumers do prefer larger vehicles which are less aerodynamically efficient wnd heavier, which is really a direct result of the distance and reliance on the vehicle Americans have.
That is surprisingly bad. My substantially larger Ram 3500 dually gets 15mpg even when loaded with 4000lb of cargo in the bed. Towing a trailer I get about 14mpg, unless there is a substantial headwind (since the trailer is much taller than the truck), that is the only scenario where it drops to near 12mpg.
The example you gave is the Ford F150 Raptor which is an enthusiast model for off roading that is extra inefficient and I wouldn’t call the Jeep Wrangler a “big SUV” but it is an incredibly fuel inefficient one with terrible aerodynamics.
I can squeeze up to 40mpg on interstate if I drive slow (under 65mph) and it's typically about 20-25mpg within the city but the ride for School specifically, I'm not sure what's going on there.
Maybe its not truly 1 full gallon so not 12mpg but a little over that like ~18mpg.
3 miles is less than 5km. Perfectly fine by bicycle. Oh wait.. I guess you have too much freedom and no infrastructure other than highways so you gotta drive and burn all the fuel, time and money.
I live in the EU: I pay at least half my income in taxes, have less freedom due to insane bureaucracy, and the infrastructure around me isn't great (highways or pedestrian/bicycle). On top of that, fuel is double what it is in the US.
Whatever shortcomings there are in US society, it's not perfect in the EU either. That US freedom and infrastructure looks OK to me.
If gas was free for EU, we'd still pay more than US for it, by the sheer amount of taxes. 25-30% of current price is gas cost itself, raw cost, the rest is taxes.
So if EU somehow magically got the same amount of gas for 100% free, we'd at most pay some 25% less than we do now, and it would still be more expensive than US.
Brother, I live in Austin. It's 40C outside and my kids are very young.
We do have bike paths over that routes but it's just not safe for my kids yet. The road they need to bike along allows up to 65mph.
In the Netherlands I just had to cross a 30km/h road (down to 20km during school hours and pedestrians always get first preference) to drop them. Netherlands is just too satisfactorily safe ♥
For context, the US is the top oil producer in the world. I also don’t know what you’re trying to say, none of the money you spend on gas goes to politicians
Its an international market, so that doesn't mean much. US producers can sell their product where they want. Its mainly taxes making it more expensive.
But that's tax. Which makes my point.
If we ever had (almost) free electricity breakthrough we'd still pay relatively the same for it. Energy is one of the most important aspects and they'll never just give it away for free, regardless of how much it costs them. Why would they? They know we need it and they know how much we're willing to pay for it.
True although a big component of the energy prices in Europe are due to policy driven taxation. There is a huge difference in intra EU petrol prices from around 6$/gal to 10$/gal.
Well the US could just pump their wells and outproduce the entire rest of the world in crude oil and refined products like gasoline if it wanted to. Or if it was forced to.
There's a Jevons Paradox type thing where they ended up spending roughly the same to travel a mile due to Japan or the EU pushing for efficiency due to needing to import the fuel (might be visible in California too due to them fighting their geography that causes smog).
Possibly the EU is pulling ahead on price per mile now with the shift to EVs.
Wait until you hear about German electricity prices...
(household elec is about 30-35c/kWh, public charging stations for electric cars often charge 60-70c/kWh, no joke, although I think some vendors now offer 40c charging with a subscription)
Those household prices should still put a German EV substantially ahead of the average new US vehicle in fuel cost per mile.
If they did all their charging at 70 they'd probably lose on cost to a US car (or a German diesel) but be equal to a German petrol car.
I think Germany has a cultural thing with smart meters which are mandatory for the ultra cheap charging available in many EU countries but it appears that you can get still those rates in Germany and pay about half what you quote, expanding the gap with the average US cost per mile.
You're comparing EV charging prices to US fuel prices though, that's not a fair comparison. I live in the US and have an electric car, which I charge at home on my municipal's grid. The rate is a whopping 10.5¢ per kw/h.
That’s what I pay in Connecticut for electricity. I believe most of New England and California are in the price range.
I’ve got a Prius Prime and only at around $4+ a gallon does it start to become cheaper to charge than just use gas since the gas engine is so efficient.
Yes. Would currently be "free" (<1c/kWh) around 1400-1530 tomorrow, and go up to ~15c/kWh at night. Fixed costs might distort everything significantly though.
Yes, taxes. This is more a philosophical thing, high taxes, high cohesion society, low taxes, everyone on their own. Germany especially after WW2 made the decision for a high cohesion, compromise society (which looks to be at it's end - not society, but high cohesion and solidarity, many want lower taxes).
There are many variables to prices, like larger cities, longer commutes (US drivers drive 2x km per year compared to Germany), bigger cars with worse gas mileage - so higher taxes on gas with higher gas prices (like in Germany) would probably kill the US economy.
I do understand that. I am not invalidating the reasons behind it, but it doesn't change the fact it's cheaper. Here we also have trucks, cars etc that take long commutes and thus a very high price will bring the price of transpiration up.
Also I would argue it's maybe better for the US to use smaller cars, since it thus becomes quite cheap to drive. Also this would probably make the roads safer, as bigger cars (mostly) equal unsafer cars (and shit drivers, but that's just my opinion tbh).
How is it much more expensive in europe? cos in india where we import most of our ONG and its one of the more expensive things on a household bill, it is right now 102INR/L = 0.93 EUR/L.
Okay sorry it's 11 days later, but: mostly taxes etc. Also because the fuel is 'made' partly here (refined), it makes it more costly since workers and also taxes are higher.
Also the Netherlands where I live is very expensive, while Sweden it's 0,50 cents at least lower.
I have no idea, and what do you mean by 'typical US car'? Like a US car model or just the fact Americans drive more?
A lot of Europeans do drive as much as Americans do, like me and truckers etc. Having 2,34 a liter here in NL makes that a pain in the arse.
Also: using more fuel on average doesn't invalidate that American fuel, compared to Europe, is dirt cheap.
Edit: also wanna add there are many 'American' cars on the road here, like Ford F-150s etc. They are imported, but have the same fuel consumption as the US variant, as being the same as the US variant.
I'd say the Netherlands is the exception here, almost all such cars that I see on the roads (mostly in France) are from the Netherlands, along with some from Belgium.
They are also mostly driven by maniacs apparently.
My wife drives a VW that's built locally in Tennessee. The engine is from Mexico, the transmission used be from Japan. I think it's a Korean unit now produced on a license.
Optimistically, it drinks about 11L per 100KM. Stop and go will severely increase consumption.
It's a large car to you, but it's kind of midsize here.
I looked it up, and that car isn't being sold here and would indeed be in the 'big SUV' range. About 3% of cars here are those cars, while in the USA it's about 10-20%.
But question: why drive that car, with that milage, while you could have a slightly smaller car with better milage? I just don't get that.
But question: why drive that car, with that milage, while you could have a slightly smaller car with better milage? I just don't get that.
I am long time VW driver. I've had several GTIs, have driven the Rabbits, the Corrodos, the Sciroccos. My fave was my '95 Driver's Edition GTI, the one with the the golf ball for the manual transmission knob.
Things have changed. I have a mini bear 120 lbs Akita. 2 bikes that fit nicely in the trunk of the Atlas (mine is Cross Sport), so that we don't have to deal with hitches and bike racks. I've spent thousands on Thule bike racks and don't like the experience when backing up and maneuvering, the constant beeps and near panic attack level alerts.
We also live in Miami, where biblical level floods are at least twice a year. The clearance helps. My wife refuses to drive a sedan, because they really float down the street when it rains, you might as well get row paddles and a sail. And, I won't risk driving my EV (Hyundai Ioniq 5) in such conditions. It's the states/urban planning fault, but here we are. Even the Atlas's clearance isn't much help in these conditions, I've seen lifted Toyota trucks just slide into the canals.
In addition, and I can't tell what's the chicken or what's the egg, but we don't have access to inexpensive utilitarian vehicles in the US. The manifucatures dropped low margin vehicles, everything is luxury this or that, that includes European brands that export to the US.
I love small cars, it's that we only have a few on the market, and the ones that remain don't make sense financially. My 2010 Mini Cooper was a hoot to drive, I drove it with my Weimaraner (RIP Lotus) coast to coast twice with room to spare.
while in the USA it's about 10-20%
These numbers look too low. When I lived in North Carolina a few years ago, seemingly every other vehicle was either an F150 or a Ram or a Silverado, and that's not counting SUVs. The US is not a monoculture.
People will just buy diesel cars then. That happened in Europe, people bought diesel cars because it was cheaper, because of taxes. Not great for the environment.
Make $200 per gallon of diesel? This has the potential to collapse entire economies. Shipping will be more expensive, which will in turn make everything more expensive. Food will be more expensive too, tractors use diesel. Few things don't depend on diesel at some point or another.
Tax only the fuel used by cars? Many people still need their car to work, not every job can be remote, at $200 a gallon, you may as well quit, unless you get paid the difference, which again will increase the price of things.
Maybe a few decades from now, if could be $200 a gallon without breaking everything, but certainly not now.
Sometimes countries can formulate energy policies that accomplish two goals at once.
They can keep taxes on refined petroleum products low in order to not destroy the present economy, while simultaneously fostering a budding renewable energy industry. USA is the second largest producer of renewable energy in the world behind only China. California + Texas by themselves rank 6th in the world.
No, I think the technology fundamentally is not there and a decade away even with stronger financial incentives (of which there are already plenty). Between range, charge times, and worst of all: weight. A huge percentage of loads are operating at the limit of what is legally allowed on highways and it's strictly enforced. If you increase the baseline weight of the vehicle substantially, as you must with current battery energy densities, you decrease what can be carried by a single truck proportionally.
What will actually happen is literally everything will get more expensive.
Good thing we have a subsidy to encourage people to buy EVs.
Ohh wait…
I suspect the price will be directly subsidized to keep folks happy. Since we’re in wacky world this subsidy will be inconsistent depending on where you are.
Blue States will be left with gas going to 6$ or more and Red States will probably have prices subsidized down to 4$.
